​Read online​

Welcome to Unpacking Meaning. If you received this from a friend and enjoy it, ​subscribe here.

How to write copy for your customers instead of at them

“Do we really need to do interviews?”

A client asked me this last month. We were scoping a messaging project, and when I mentioned customer interviews as part of the research, he paused.

“Can’t we just use the data we have? The analytics? The surveys?”

I get it. Interviews feel slow. They feel like a nice-to-have. And when you’re under pressure to ship, carving out time to talk to actual humans seems like a luxury.

But there’s a problem…

The NPC problem

There’s a concept in the Arbinger Institute’s book Leadership and Self-Deception called being “in the box.” It means seeing other people as objects—obstacles, vehicles, or irrelevancies—rather than as full human beings with their own goals, fears, and motivations.

Marketers fall into this trap constantly.

We stare at dashboards. We obsess over conversion rates. We segment by behavior and score by engagement. And somewhere along the way, customers stop being people and start being… NPCs.

Non-playing characters. Background figures moving through the funnel. Numbers with email addresses attached.

When you’re in the box, you write copy at customers. You guess at their objections. You assume their motivations. And you wonder why the messaging doesn’t work.

Interviews pull you out of the box

A good customer interview—especially a Jobs-to-be-Done style interview—does something no dashboard can do.

It shows you the why behind the behavior.

JTBD interviews aren’t product feedback sessions. They’re not “what feature do you want next?” conversations. They’re about uncovering the progress your customer was trying to make when they hired your product.

What was happening before they started looking? What triggered the search? What alternatives did they consider? What almost stopped them from buying? What does success look like now?

This is the before, during, and after of their decision-making process. And inside that story lives the language, the anxieties, and the motivations that make messaging actually resonate.

The 80/20 of customer insight

Here’s what I told my client:

Interviews give you the 80/20. They surface the handful of insights that explain most of the decision-making. The real objections (not the ones you imagine). The actual language (not the corporate-speak you’ve been using). The emotional undercurrent that no survey will ever capture.

One interview won’t transform your messaging. But five to eight? That’s usually enough to see patterns. To hear the same phrases repeated, and to understand the struggle that brought them to you.

And once you have that, everything downstream gets easier.

• Headlines write themselves.
• Value props get clearer.
• Handling objections becomes easier.
• Sales conversations feel like actual conversations.

The empathy problem isn’t a flaw—it’s a symptom

I’m not here to lecture marketers about caring more. Most of the marketers I work with genuinely want to understand their customers. They’re not callous. They’re just… busy.

And when you’re busy, the path of least resistance is the spreadsheet. The segment. The persona doc someone made two years ago.

The problem is lack of exposure, not of empathy.

Interviews create exposure. They force you to sit with a real person’s story for 45 minutes, to listen without an agenda, to really notice the pauses, the frustrations, the moments of relief.

You can’t stay in the box when you’re hearing someone describe the chaos before they found you, and then the promise land they’re living in now.

Where to start

If you haven’t done JTBD-style interviews before:

1. Pick 5-8 recent customers who made a buying decision in the last 90 days (6-months max). Memory fades fast.
2. Focus on the timeline. Start with “Take me back to when you first realized you needed something like this.”
3. Follow the energy. When they get animated or frustrated, dig deeper. That’s where the insight lives. If you can have the call on video (or in person!).
4. Capture their exact language. You’re probably already using an AI note taker. Take advantage of it!
5. Look for patterns. After 5 conversations, themes will start bubbling up.

You don’t need a research team. You don’t need a formal methodology. You just need to stop treating customers like data points and start treating them like protagonists in their own story.

Because that’s what they are.

If you want help capturing interview insights and turning them into messaging that actually converts, let’s talk. That’s the work I do.

DISCOVERY

How to Write B2B Copy That Actually Converts

I recently joined Andy Milligan on Marketing by Design for a deep dive into what really drives message–market fit. If you want the behind-the-scenes thinking behind my process, this episode is a solid place to start.

​

Here’s what you’ll learn:

• Why research is 70% of conversion copy — and how most teams shortcut the wrong things.
• How I blend copy + UX + psychology to design messages people feel, not just read.
• My wireframing workflow and how I create clarity from “Google Doc → wireframe → design”.
• How to spot misalignment on a SaaS website before it kills conversions.
• Where AI actually fits in modern messaging work (and where it absolutely doesn’t).

If you enjoy seeing how I think, you’ll like this one.

RESONANCE

Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings

Have a great weekend!

Cheers,

Chris

Chris Silvestri Founder & conversion alchemist

🙌🏻 Let’s be friends (unless you’re a stalker)​

When you're ready, here's a few ways I can help

Not sure where to start? Take our free message-market fit scorecard.​